Some Thoughts on the Steinberger R-Trem

31/7/2016

My first experience with a Steinberger R-Trem was with as Steinberger Spirit GU-7R from the now defunct MusicYo.com. It is a beautiful guitar but from the first time I played it, there was something wrong with the highly touted R-Trem.

The first problem that I had with the R-Trem was the screw used to tension the main spring. The screw was really hard to turn and felt really rough. It turns out that the threads for the screw were stripped. Tough news for someone who had been looking forward to owning a Steinberger for so long. After getting over the disappointment, the busted threads were drilled out and a keps style lock nut was added to replace the threads. The screw used to tension the main trem spring is now nice and smooth.

New nut on the main spring screw

New nut with main spring and spring pusher installed

After fixing the main spring screw, there was more trouble. Whenever the R-Trem was moved, it made a creaking sound! What next! After having a close look, I discovered that the front of the bridge was rubbing up against the body. Was the trem not installed properly in the cavity? Was the whole thing somehow defective? I didn't know and wanted to play the guitar right away I solved what was in front of me. I took a metal file to the bridge and filed off enough metal so that the bridge didn't rub on the body anymore. Goodbye squeaky noise!

Dent in body where bridge was rubbing (look close!)

Filed front of bridge

By now, the guitar was playing really beautifully. Unfortunately, with a lot of playing, the bridge started to squeek and creak again. The bridge was being pulled into the body. What the heck! I wasn't going to keep filing the bridge away!

After searching on the internet and taking the R-Trem apart again, it looked like the dreaded and infamous bending post problem had reared its ugly head. How could the posts bend? Well, the posts weren't bending, the cheap metal that the posts were screwed into was bending! Aaargh! That was it! I cut off the part of the metal holding the posts and replace that wimpy stuff with some proper chunks of steel.

Soft metal (zinc) replaced with proper steel pieces

Finally, all problems solved! Right? Nope, the soft metal (probably zinc) that most of the R-Trem is made out of is causing another problem. It's not affecting how the trem works too much yet but the tab or bracket that transfers the force of the main trem spring to balance out string tension is starting to bend.

Spring tab/bracket starting to lean/bend backwards

I think that a lot of these problems make a strong case that the material used to make the R-Trem just isn't up to the task of keeping everything in working order in the long term. Either that or the R-Trem just wasn't designed to last.

One of the cool thinks about the R-Trem is the locking mechanism that allows you to play with a floating or fixed bridge. It also allows you to lock the bridge in tune if one of the strings break. Of course, this would be a really cool feature if it actually worked properly! On the R-Trem, there is just too much slop in the pin that holds the locking arm in place and between the locking jaw and locking stud. The lock really doesn't perform as promised since you can still wiggle the bridge when it's locked.

If I can wiggle the bridge, then the strings can easily go out of tune or not be the same tuning when floating as it is when locked. A locking bridge is a good idea but the design on the R-Trem just doesn't deliver.

The GU-7R with R-Trem plays really well and is a beautiful sounding instrument when it is working well. Unfortunately, some of the design is lacking and the whole thing seems to always be tending towards self destruction!

40 Comments

VentureShadow

15/9/2018 03:21:39 pm

The R-trem on my costly Steinberger GR4 had similar problems including not staying in tune and requiring far too much force to use. I replaced it with a new Steinberger R-trem but it worked well only a few months. I recently replaced it with an equivalent of the S-trem bought directly from China through Ebay. I had to rout out the cavity to fit and add a shim block I made, all using a moto-tool. This was successful. The new S-trem stays in tune, works smoothly and is easy to use. It uses single ball strings not double ball. Here is a link to it: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-of-6-String-Tremolo-Bridge-Tailpiece-for-Headless-Electric-Guitar-Parts/302554764401?epid=15010883729&hash=item4671ab5471:g:slsAAOSwXsFaisjZ

Mitch

15/9/2018 03:43:40 pm

Thanks for the comment. Sorry about the formatting. I'm fixing that as we speak! Cheers!

Mitch

15/9/2018 04:43:09 pm

Very nice! Thanks for the comment, the link and for pointing out that the fonts on my blog comments were messed up!

Tetzip

28/2/2019 05:22:10 am

Hi VentureShadow,

May i ask how the condition is of your S-trem after some months of playing?
I just bought a Steinberger GT Pro and it plays very good (excellent neck and frets) but the R-trem is horrible so I was thinking about buying the Chinese S-trem.

Many thanks in advance.
Grtz Paul.

VentureShadow link

25/8/2020 02:49:43 pm

Hi, Tetzip, I just noticed your reply. That Chinese S-trem equivalent continues to work properly. I have lubricated it once or twice, but I had to do that with a bonafide Steinberger trans-trem on a different guitar. The trans-trem took far more time and effort. Anyway the Chinese S-trem stays in tune and is a pleasure to use, with only a light touch needed to employ vibrato. There's a video of my playing my composition "Waterfall" on YouTube using this vibrato on the Steinberger USA GR4 guitar, on the VentureShadow channel.

Scott

29/5/2019 04:07:15 am

I disagree that the design is bad. I think, with the proper material (read:steel) and paying attention to tolerances (with the locking part of the bridge), that it would be a good piece of gear. Unfortunately, the desire for profit over-road the need for a good track record and reputation.

I wonder how the new release of the Spirit series in early 2018 is fairing? Hopefully they learned their lesson from that last batch and made a quality product this time but I seriously doubt it. A company named JCustom makes essentially a duplicate of these R-Trem but with the exact same (faulty) materials.

It looks like you have the means - and drive - to do what it takes to make it work. Ever thought about building replacement units and selling them? -or at least parts like you assembled in yours (especially for the leaning post syndrome)?

Mitch

29/5/2019 08:15:35 am

Hi Scott. Thanks for your comments. Yes, I am working on a complete replacement bridge. Getting very close to the final prototype using a design and materials that offer excellent performance and durability at a reasonable price. The interesting thing about the R-Trem is that it was designed to be made by die casting. The exact same shapes made out of stronger materials like steel cannot be die cast and can only be made using processes that make the bridge way too expensive. I've been scratching my head for years on how to make an enhanced replacement bridge out of steel that is affordable and profitable enough to provide good long term support for everyone. I'm working towards having that solution by the end of this year if time after family and work allows. LOL!

Scott

7/6/2019 03:31:32 am

Then I stand corrected. I know nothing of how these things are designed (as far as die casting molds and materials) so if you say so then that is probably it. I wish you luck on getting this thing out. There should be a good market out there for this - assuming the price point is in the "sweet spot". Let me know when they are done and I, assuming I still own a Steinberger, will likely buy one from you.

Mitch

7/6/2019 02:36:11 pm

Hi Scott. Thanks for your interest and support! Cheers, Mitch

mark

15/6/2019 04:21:08 am

love wut your doin. I would like to stay up to date on your progress

Mitch

15/6/2019 10:45:15 pm

Thanks Mark! The MGR Design website homepage has the latest updates that I put on Facebook and Instagram. I should have more updates coming soon. Cheers!

COLIN BRUCE

7/8/2019 08:29:28 am

Hi,

R-Trem, it's so bloody stiff to push down, i can barely tell the difference from when it's locked / floating - any suggestions?

Mitch

7/8/2019 10:45:36 am

Hi Bruce, Thanks for your interest in MGR Design! The r-trem can be a bit stiff on a deep dive but not being able to tell the difference between locked and unlocked seems a bit extreme and sounds like something is wrong.

I would suggest locking the bridge, removing the strings, fully unscrewing the spring adjustment screw and then turning the adjustment screw back in to put a little tension on the spring (to keep the knife edges lightly seated on the pivot posts). Now, while holding on to the back of the bridge (the tuners) or the trem arm, unlock the bridge and see how well it pivots. It should be easy and nice and smooth. At this point, if the the knife edge pivots weren't seated property in the grooves of the pivot posts, you can try to put them in place properly by hand since the spring should just be pushing hard enough to keep everything lightly in place (adjust the spring tension knob as required to get a nice light tension without the top piece coming off the posts or without things getting too stiff. No precision require here, just close enough).

If you are still running into problems, loosen the spring screw fully and pull the top piece of the bridge right off (the spring will fall out / be loose) and have a look in there. Does the top piece seem to fit just fine and pivot well without the spring? Does everything look right with the spring, the spring screw and the spring pusher? Do the pivots look right? Does the spring tab on the top piece look right?

I hope this helps! Feel free to come back with more questions.
Cheers, Mitch

COLIN BRUCE

12/8/2019 03:38:33 am

Everything seems fine, it seems to me that the spring is too strong to compress, I let the bridge lift way above the point where it locks and restrung it and tuned it to 440, there is a very slight reduction in tension, is there a 'weaker' spring you can apply to the r-trem?

Mitch

12/8/2019 08:10:13 am

Hi Colin,

If everything is smooth, it's hard to say if that's just the way the r-trem is or if there are any other issues. It does take quite a bit of effort for a deep dive. Unfortunately, with a given geometry, the spring needs to be what it is to counteract the tension of the strings. Cheers, Mitch.

Scott

7/8/2019 08:50:32 am

Sorry, no comment or suggestion. Just re-subscribing to this blog

Mitch

7/8/2019 10:22:41 am

Cool, welcome back!

COLIN BRUCE

12/8/2019 09:23:12 am

thanks mitch, i'll soldier on, i never use the bar to deep dive, i only used it for vibrato or bending in/out of a note, i'll go and get my sledge hammer from the shed and see if i can talk the r trem into behaving itself lol.

Mitch

12/8/2019 11:25:30 am

lol! good luck colin. One thing I did notice on the bridge that I'm developing is that the action is a little easier than the r-trem. Not that noticeable but enough that I can get a warble sound from the bridge by hitting the whammy bar. I wasn't able to do that on my bridge either on early prototypes until I made a few changes for a smoother pivoting motion. Cheers! Mitch

COLIN BRUCE

15/8/2019 04:46:49 am

Hi Mitch,

Sorry for the countless messages, i was looking at the R-trem last night and i can barely place a fingernail between the trem edge near the pick ups and the face of the wooden routed face. from what i can tell, there's no gap at all between the edge of the trem at the level where the string saddles sit. could this be the problem?

Mitch

15/8/2019 09:19:08 am

Hi Bruce, no worries, I love this stuff! You can see from the pictures above what lengths I went through to stop the bridge from rubbing on the body. There were actual dents in the wood from the interference. Of course, this problem just gets worse as the pivot posts continue to tilt forward over time. I designed the MGR bridge so that this could never happen in the first place. Cheers!

Frank

11/11/2019 05:33:52 am

Have my Steinberger Spirit ppro deluxe now a month, and I already encounter some of the issues above. First I thew the horrible pickups out, and put Seymour Duncans in. Of course I had to use a dremel to make the middle single coil fit in the cavity. Push pull pot fort the 2 humbuckers. Then I bought a string adapter to put mmy ernie Ball slinky's 009 in. And then the trouble began.. Every thin e- string broke by the ball end. It not really broke, but sort of unraveled out of tune..just unwinding from the ball- end. I broke already 4 strings this way.. First I thought that -by pulling the string backwards with tuning-, the string near the ball end was scraped off because it touched the edge of the bridge. So I filed a small round piece of the bridge away to give the string some space. Then it happened again.
I was going to take the bridge apart to see whats inside, then I stumbled onto this article.. Anyone else with this experience?

Mitch

11/11/2019 12:27:01 pm

Hi Frank, that sounds really strange. I had a look at my old r-trem and it doesn't look like the wound part of the string has ever interacted with the bridge or the saddles. Maybe someone else could chime in?

There was a time when I used to break strings fairly often on any guitar, lol! Soldering the wraps on the plain strings solved that problem...most of the time.;)

There are also some good Steinberger forums on Facebook with someone that may be able to provide a bit more insight. Cheers, Mitch

Frank

11/11/2019 12:45:15 pm

Thanks alot Mitch! the next string I will solder. Great Idea!
I see your video is from 2012.. since then they didn't change anything on the trem. I wonder if the original Steinberger from the 80's was that bad

Rabo Karabekian

25/12/2019 09:02:33 am

Try threading the string through the "ball" end hole once or twice.

Mitch

11/11/2019 03:27:52 pm

No problem! I'm not sure how the r-trems from the 80s were but from my research and the interest I am getting for my new bridge, I think that they all had similar issues. I hope that your string issues go away. Ernie Ball is my favorite string brand too. Cheers!

Frank

25/12/2019 10:42:13 am

Got my string issue solved with soldering near the ball-ends. After wo months, I got my Spirit Pro 'De Luxe'(LOL) in a very smooth state, so that it plays as light as my Ibanez JEM. A lot of work, and I post a link when I put this whole story on a tasty video on YouTube. Anothe month or so. Good holidays everyone!

Mitch

25/12/2019 02:23:48 pm

Hi Frank, that's awesome. Looking forward to the video. Happy Holidays!!

Frank

28/12/2019 03:28:24 pm

In the mean time, I stumbled upon Kiesel Guitars. Very exclusive expensive headless guitars. Do they use the same crappy r-trems or do they have something better? https://www.kieselguitars.com/customshop/

Mitch

29/12/2019 12:01:41 pm

Hi Frank, I'm pretty sure that Kiesel uses a Hipshot headless bridge with extension springs at the back and so do Strandberg and other headless guitars. Those bridges should work just fine but they can't practically be used as a replacement for an r-trem. If you're in the market for a new headless guitar, my impression is that Kiesel makes some really nice guitars.

FrankF

15/4/2020 03:17:25 pm

in a few days i finish my video about the Steinberger Spirit pro deLuxe (lol) It will be devastating. I post a link when I'm ready

Mitch

15/4/2020 07:19:50 pm

Cool!

Frank

16/4/2020 09:57:45 am

oops.. I accidently unsubscribed.. Ill be back.. in one or 2 days I post my Steinberger Spirit PRo GT- Deluxe (what a mouthful for such a piece of cr..)

Frank F

17/4/2020 02:32:29 am

Ok, guys, I just published my 'thoughts' on the Steinberger Spirit Pro GT- DeLuxe
A total breakdown.. If I wasn't desperately in need of a travel-guitar,
I would have thrown it in the fire, or used it as a paddle ,ike the Anderton's do in their video. But after months of work, I made it play almost as smooth as my Ibanez. https://youtu.be/kz7p40-b6so

Mitch

17/4/2020 07:38:19 am

Great video Frank! Pretty much spot on. LOL! It's funny that you noticed all of the play in the tuners. I was jiggling those around yesterday as well, comparing them to the design of my bridge. Very nice playing as well. Thank you for sharing!

Frank

18/4/2020 06:31:11 am

It was a pleasure to do, thanks. But isn't it unbelievable that after all these years nothing has changed? They are for decades producing the same shit. They must have read through the years the problems there were with the trem.. I thingk I was Lucky to change the gauge right away, so I stil have a functioning bridge.But I still keep looking out for a site around this world who sells good spare parts.

4/11/2020 05:35:26 am

That's a bit stressful. I just put a fresh JCustom R-trem into a Hohner and hope all those things will never happen (of course did happen to the old R-trem I received the guitar with). Hohner has R-trem kinda snugly built into the body, so there's no room for things getting bent at all. Fingers crossed, trem works fantastic for now - very stable if predictably stiffer than a Floyd.

Chriss

23/1/2021 03:38:57 pm

Having a spirit gt pro deluxe, I'm also concerned about R-Trem durability.

I'd love to install a 10-46 set on mine, but I stick to 9-42 to avoid the various bend issues...

@zk, what's your opinion about JS Custom trem, compared to original one ?

24/1/2021 03:55:24 am

I had no opportunity to compare with an another functioning R-trem. But tuning stability wise JCustom is almost on par with my double locking Schaller - very good. And seems very well put together in general. I have it just three months, use 9-46 strings, recorded a couple of tracks and didn't manage to break it yet (low standards huh). BTW I believe the guy running this blog has completed his improved version with hardened posts and improved arm and lock mechanisms.

Mitch Regnier

25/1/2021 07:12:50 am

Yes, getting the first units out slowly. :)

Some Thoughts on the Steinberger R-Trem

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